Commons:Village pump/Archive/2024/06

Renaming of File:Air Force Ensign of India (2023).svg

Proceeding with rename. —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 14:24, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Ok, this is getting a bit ridiculous, but this rename request has been at some sort of limbo state for 5 months so I'm bringing it here so it can gain more attention. Should we rename the file to File:Air Force Ensign of India.svg? I quote Fry1989's reasoning:

"This flag is currently in use, so the year of introduction should not be included in the file name. This is as per Commons' long-standing practice of naming flag images "Flag of XXX.svg" without a year of introduction unless the flag has been retired from use. It also can be confused for implying this flag was only used in 2023, as per the naming styles for flags such as File:Flag of Burundi (1966).svg, File:Flag of Zimbabwe Rhodesia (1979).svg, and File:Flag of Jamaica (1962).svg, which were only used for 1 year or less and for that reason include both their year of introduction and year of retirement as a single year."

Pinging previously involved editors: @Fry1989, KylieTastic, Paine Ellsworth, and Billinghurst. —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 13:57, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

 Support as proposer. —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 13:57, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

 Support Fry's reasoning is sound, I'm surprised at the amount of pushback he's getting. ReneeWrites (talk) 14:03, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Leaning toward  support pending editor billinghurst's present rationale to see if it has changed since January? P. I. Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there 14:27, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

 Support as long as a redirect is left for all the current uses of the dated version. KylieTastic (talk) 16:30, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Stuck in category redirects

At Special:Permalink/880570764 a list of category redirects with files (or subcategories) that aren't moved.

This is generally due to categories being added by templates. I identified some at User_talk:RussBot/category_redirect_log#Template_populating_category_redirects and fixed a few occurrences. Enhancing999 (talk) 13:04, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Some of these either should probably have CfDs or the redirect is actually the correct category. --Adamant1 (talk) 13:22, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Normally, there shouldn't be any category on that list. If one is there it means RussBot tried to move the files or subcategories, but couldn't. If the category is empty now, it means it has been fixed.

Maybe there is a way to adapt w:Template:Resolve category redirect so redirecting categories aren't picked up by templates. Enhancing999 (talk) 14:03, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Commons Gazette 2024-06

Volunteer staff changes

In May 2024, 1 sysop was removed. Currently, there are 184 sysops.

• User:Benoît Prieur was removed on 13 May due to global ban by the Wikimedia Foundation. He had served as sysop since 18 January 2018.

Other news

• Video2commons is out of service since 16 May.
• User:SteinsplitterBot is back in service rotating files. User:Steinsplitter explained that it was out of service because ' the so called "Toolsforge" does not provide enough ressources (RAM, CPU, Storage and binarys) to run Rotatebot '.

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Edited by RZuo (talk).

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Commons Gazette is a monthly newsletter of the latest important news about Wikimedia Commons, edited by volunteers. You can also help with editing!

--RZuo (talk) 13:46, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Aligning images with strong sources

We have several pictures from WWII concerning Croatian area that are described wrongly or incorrectly given that this is what the secondary sources who comment or talk about these pictures say. The source that took picture from a Yugoslav archive is United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. It is also a factual source, however, it has a description of the image that is not in accordance with modern sources, which mark such an interpretation(regardless from whom) and as propaganda.

What to do in this case, and if nothing can be changed, can the same picture be posted but with an explanation ie description based on modern high-quality sources of historians?

Images are: Corpses in the Sava river, Sisak 1945.[1], Ustaše militia execute prisoners near the Jasenovac concentration camp[2], Glina church massacre [3] --Mikola22 (talk) 06:28, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Maybe this helps: File:Bundesarchiv Bild 183-09549-0004, Leipzig, Universität, Archiv.jpg reproduces the original description with a caption/disclaimer. The actual wiki-description goes in a different field. Enhancing999 (talk) 10:59, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't think we can write caption/disclaimer below "United States Holocaust Memorial Museum" because this source is not an archive. It can be said that it is a secondary source. But the problem is that they took these photos from the Yugoslav Archive or sources which interpreted these photos in their own way. In modern sources of historians this method is labeled and as propaganda and with the explanation that the photographs show some other events and not the events that are presented through Yugoslav historiography. Let's say for the majority of Croats killed in Sisak, these photos are listed in the archive as pictures for Jasenovac with a note that this is how people were killed similar or the same and in the concentration camp Jasenovac, so these pictures can also be used in topics about Jasenovac, etc. Today, in fact photos of the majority of Croats killed in Sisak are placed in the context of the killing of Serbs, Jews, the Jasenovac Camp, etc. Mikola22 (talk) 14:24, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

For starters, there is {{Fact disputed}}. If (as appears to be the case here) the matter is genuinely controversial, that's a good choice: you are not simply making a correction, you are noting that two presumably scholarly sources disagree.

File:Bundesarchiv Bild 183-09549-0004, Leipzig, Universität, Archiv.jpg may not be the best example, because it just has a generic warning. File:1st Ave. S. looking north from S. Washington St., ca. 1876 - DPLA - 571301e7640245dfce8110b0e1b41c2c.jpg might be a better example. Note: "original description" distinct from (corrected) "title"; also, in the "description" field, note the horizontal bar separating what the original source said from Commons' own original content.

Also, when contradicting a presumably respectable scholarly source, it is a good idea to report the contradiction back to them. They are likely to incorporate it into their archives as well (which I see has now happened with that example I gave). - Jmabel ! talk 19:02, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Category inclusion bug

Category:1801 baptismal fonts in Bavaria correctly shows Category:1801 baptismal fonts in Germany as a parent cat, but the latter does not show the former as a child cat. - Jmabel ! talk 22:54, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Categories included due to templates frequently have issues with updating due to cache issues or the MediaWiki software updating its index (which I believe is done weekly). So while three days is a long time for it to not display, it’s not entirely unreasonable. Have you tried purging both cats and the template (I cannot on the machine I’m using presently)? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:58, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

I had purged both cats. I didn't think to try purging the template; now I've done so, and it still didn't resolve this. - Jmabel ! talk 00:29, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Null edit fixed the problem. MKFI (talk) 06:10, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

27.png still exists

So I've been making a spreadsheet of all the numerical PNG files on here from 01.png to 99.png. While browsing I found that 27.png is somehow still an existing file? Here's the link: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:27.png

I don't know what it is so I can't move it to a better file name. Hopefully someone knows what this is. 0x16w (talk) 09:59, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

29.png also still exists apparently. 0x16w (talk) 10:03, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Checked all the other numbers up to 99.png, these are the only two remaining ones. 0x16w (talk) 10:17, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Limited to the edits

IP address: 2400:2412:2820:3F00:98C9:C7C6:438:4912 This limited to 128 edits on IP address to expiry 1 week 2400:2412:2820:3F00:98C9:C7C6:438:4912 11:08, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

See Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/Vandalism#Yusaya 94038917, this seems to be an IP and user trying to hit some kind of autoconfirmed edit count, probably a misunderstood one. Belbury (talk) 11:14, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Deletion request for presumed orphaned category

I recently made this Category:Hungern bis ihr ehrlich seid 2024, then realized that that name is confusing, formed something more suitable, and duly added a redirect. That confusing name is still being shown as an auto‑completion option when filling in other more sensible categories, which could lead to wrong categorizations and be detrimental. I believe that that confusing category name is orphaned in any case.

My request is that Category:Hungern bis ihr ehrlich seid 2024 be deleted if at all possible. My apologies for adding to the admin workload, sorry for that. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 16:46, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I'll delete it, but for the future please see the directions at Template:How to delete empty categories. - Jmabel ! talk 23:58, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I looked at the documentation for Template:How to delete empty categories and it is not clear (to me at least) where to place this template. I guess that the target category is the correct location? Perhaps that information could be confirmed and added to the usage notes for that template? I have also already added a topic to the template discussion page to record my suggestion there. In addition, the template name seems confusing: is this template invoking a deletion process or merely offering passive advice. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 07:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

(Question is answered on that template talk page.) - Jmabel ! talk 17:56, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: -- — billinghurst sDrewth 01:22, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Guitars, bass guitars, and COM:OVERCAT

I'm currently in something of a dispute with User:186.172.16.70 over guitars, bass guitars, and (implicitly) COM:OVERCAT. If this were a logged in user, I'd try to sort this out between just the two of us but, sorry, I'm not engaging over time with an account that might be a different person each time I interact.

If I understand correctly this edit is because bass guitars are, in a sense, a form of guitar, so there is an implicit argument that Category:Male guitarists from Austria is overcat for Category:Male bass guitarists from Austria. However, bass guitar is, in practice, a distinct instrument from a regular guitar, and we don't have something like a Category:No, really I meant a normal guitar. This particular person (unlike most bass guitarists) played/plays both a bass guitar and a regular guitar professionally, and in my opinion in that case someone should certainly be categorized under both, despite the theory of OVERCAT. Do others here, besides this one user, see it differently? - Jmabel ! talk 22:18, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

There is no such thing as "regular guitar". Unless there is such a thing as irregular guitar. Do you mean Spanish guitar? Classical guitar? Ritm guitar? Of course admins are always right, this is why I chose not to be one. 186.172.16.70 23:14, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Maybe you should open a Category:Normal guitarists... 😁 186.172.16.70 23:38, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

By the way, why is Category:Bass guitarists a subcategory of Category:Guitarists? 186.172.16.70 23:58, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

By a "regular guitar" I mean one with six strings, tuned in the usual register.

I'm not sure why Category:Bass guitarists is a subcategory of Category:Guitarists, and (as a guitarist) I would not have made it so, any more than I would have made violists a subcategory of violinists. That is exactly the issue I am raising here. - Jmabel ! talk 00:25, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Again, would someone please weigh in besides the two of us who are already arguing? - Jmabel ! talk 15:05, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

There may be an expectation by some that the guitar(ist) categories are meant to contain guitar-like instrument(alist)s as subcategories. That issue is easily solved by {{Cat see also}}. We already have Guitar family instruments as a common category. I assume bass guitarists mostly aren't also known as (or routinely professionally performing as) "normal" guitarists – if they are, then the issue is different. –LPfi (talk) 09:06, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

I would certainly be happier if, in general, bass guitars were subcatted from Category:Guitar family instruments (which should probably be hyphenated: "guitar-family" as an adjective) rather than Category:Guitars. Similarly for bass guitarists, though we don't yet have a category for players of guitar-family instruments. - Jmabel ! talk 14:45, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Jmabel here - in context, "guitarist" specifically means someone who plays a normal guitar, so I view this as analogous to the Category:Politicians of Germany example in COM:OVERCAT. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:32, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Commons:Media knowledge beyond Wikipedia: The future of Wikimedia Commons

Hi!

A recent essay about the future scope and extent has been published. Maybe you want to add your support :) --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 18:31, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Notice: Proposal for POTY finalist topicons

Just a heads up for this board that there is an ongoing proposal to add top icons to POTY finalists over on the POTY talk page. Please discuss there if interested. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  22:03, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Invitation to participate in the #WPWPCampaign 2024

Dear community members,

We are inviting you to participate in the Wikipedia Pages Wanting Photos 2024 campaign, a global contest scheduled to run from July through August 2024:

Participants will choose among Wikipedia pages without photo images, then add a suitable file from among the many thousands of photos in the Wikimedia Commons, especially those uploaded from thematic contests (Wiki Loves Africa, Wiki Loves Earth, Wiki Loves Folklore, etc.) over the years.

In its first year (2020), 36 Wikimedia communities in 27 countries joined the campaign. Events relating to the campaign included training organized by at least 18 Wikimedia communities in 14 countries.

The campaign resulted in the addition of media files (photos, audios and videos) to more than 90,000 Wikipedia articles in 272 languages.

Wikipedia Pages Wanting Photos (WPWP) offers an ideal task for recruiting and guiding new editors through the steps of adding content to existing pages. Besides individual participation, the WPWP campaign can be used by user groups and chapters to organize editing workshops and edit-a-thons.

The organizing team is looking for a contact person to coordinate WPWP participation your language Wikipedia. We’d be glad for you to sign up directly at WPWP Participating Communities page on Meta-Wiki.

Thank you,

Reading Beans / readthebeansgmail.com)
Project manager and coordinator
Wikipedia Pages Wanting Photos 2024

There is a map at https://bldrwnsch.toolforge.org of geocoded locations (for German language Wikipedia, sometimes articles needing additional images). Enhancing999 (talk) 18:15, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

This is vandalised!!

This catagory [[4]] has been vandalised with false information at infobox. what should to be done.
--KEmel49 (talk) 18:02, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@KEmel49: the Infobox contents are driven by Dhruv Rathee (Q96376333). Any corrections would have to be made there. You can do this; not knowing anything about the topic at hand, I would not edit on this. - Jmabel ! talk 18:09, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Cat-a-lot does still not work for categories

Though the former discussion about Cat-a-lot was archived yesterday because the problem would supposedly have been resolved, for me the problem is still the same: it still does not work for subcategories with at least one subcategory. So can this discussion be restarted and can the problem really be solved? JopkeB (talk) 03:56, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@JopkeB: you should always feel free to "necromance" a recently archived VP section back from the archive and continue the discussion. Just be sure that your edit summaries make it clear that is what you are doing. - Jmabel ! talk 05:35, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@Jmabel: How do you do that? To me it looks like a next level action. Just moving/copy-paste it and mention it in the edit summary? JopkeB (talk) 04:14, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

@JopkeB: yes, though in this case cut-and-paste is more appropriate. Mention it in the edit summary both on the archive page and where you restore it. If you have something to add, this is perfectly appropriate. - Jmabel ! talk 04:43, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

indeed, i tried on Category:Energy by type of energy, selecting kinetic energy and thermal energy and using catalot to "add to cat:energy by topic". it gets stuck at "Editing page 1 of 2". RZuo (talk) 05:38, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

It would also be nice if it worked on the conventional search rather than only special search. Yesterday I noticed it displays 1000 when only 500 items have been selected. I think this should be discussed and pointed out at the Cat-a-lot talk page. And how to solve it would be the same as for most technical issues: 1) more WMF priority/spending in that area and, more importantly, 2) things to get more volunteer onboard and have them implement/solve the most important issues such as those of tools widely used like cat-a-lot, video2commons (currently dysfunctional), or the Upload Wizard which still makes people add categories that are redirects. Banners for volunteer devs on software-related Wikipedia articles as well as a campaign with things like leaderboards, badges, gamification, internal attention, possibly external reporting, prizes (maybe also anonymous bounties), and prioritized weighted issues would be a straightforward way to implement that. One can only speculate why the WMF isn't doing things like that, could be incompetence, related to techcompany donor funds, a general lack of a sense of community wishes, and/or something else. I don't think just merely asking about any particular major technical issue on VillagePump does anything. I don't think this particular problem is large though: just refresh and move the remaining subcategories using HotCat. Prototyperspective (talk) 13:15, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

The communities of course also can run banners themselves… —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 19:49, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

File:Idioma Balinés.png

Help me Changing the old map of the distribution of the Balinese language in English Wikipedia to this one more details to me

Areas where Balinese language is spoken

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Joese van (talk • contribs) 07:53, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

This could probably use some attention from the sockpuppetry police. --HyperGaruda (talk) 22:00, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

File:Idioma Balinés.png

Section moved to be with the obviously same issue already posted. - Jmabel ! talk 00:35, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
Help, Please add to Balinese Wikipedia English. 140.213.150.119 06:21, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
END MOVED - Jmabel ! talk 00:35, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Personal creations presented as tribal flags

Hello,
I have noted Al-Hilali Z uploads what is designated as flags of Arab tribes. None of the files has an indication of a source on which the file design has been based. When queried about this though the talk page, it is confirmed the great majority are the user's personal design. Is this not an issue, especially when these flag images end up being displayed in Wikipedia articles and presented as recognized flags when this is not accurate? Moumou82 (talk) 20:41, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• I found this too for made up coats-of-arms for obscure royal families, and then websites using them. --RAN (talk) 21:50, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello,

Arabs Tribes flags are very different of other flag, they dont respect vexilollogy codes, everyone is free to create Tribal flags, there are no Official flags, except in rare cases, but they are inconsistent and free to create your own design. Al-Hilali Z (talk) 08:11, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@Al-Hilali Z: Then they are oos.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 13:51, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

No, they are completely legitimate, the majority of the flags that I make are made with the approval of members of the tribe and are adopted by them, there is no connection with the oos. Al-Hilali Z (talk) 10:48, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Your claimed approvals must be verifiable, so far you cannot demonstrate any of your claims. Moumou82 (talk) 15:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

@Moumou82: Are the blazons also made up?   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 13:44, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

I have not seen any source suggesting anything but a personal creation, which I agree is OOS. Moumou82 (talk) 20:06, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Is it okay if I force category using Cat-a-lot rather than wait?

Hi everyone. I made this category: Category:ONCHI to track the files we have uploaded as a part of our project in Indonesia. It is included via this template User:RXerself/ONCHI but I put the category later than when the files were uploaded, so the category is now still only has 3 files which, 2 of which were "forced" in which one was edited manually and saved without changing anything and the other one using Cat-a-lot. MediaWiki help page on this explains that: "when changing the categories applied by a template in this fashion, the categorization of the pages which include that template may not be updated until some time later: this is handled by the job queue." [5] But it's now more than a week already and it still only has 3 files. Is it okay if I "force" the files by using Cat-a-lot? Not okay as in I would break anything, but as in if I am allowed. RXerself (talk) 22:30, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

should be better now. Enhancing999 (talk) 22:48, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oh wow! How? Nice. Thank you. RXerself (talk) 15:37, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

@RXerself: purging or null editing category members should help along a background process that may be too slow to add to or subtract from the category or may have died due to performance issues on the running machine. I use AWB with {{Void}} to null-edit Category:Incomplete deletion requests - missing subpage‎ regularly due to this slow category filling and emptying issue.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 01:29, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

"Category:Controversial sexual and gender identities"

Is there any agreement on which categories should be placed here? This honestly feel very random. Like why are Femboy, Incest, Incel and Skoliosexuality even located here?--Trade (talk) 22:55, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

I am not a huge fan of "Controversial X" categories as a whole for this exact reason Trade (talk) 23:02, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm not convinced this category should exist at all. Whether a topic is "controversial" is not a judgement call which Commons should be making; it's not essential to the identity of the topic. Omphalographer (talk) 00:12, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I have to agree with Omphalographer. Most, if not all, sexual and gender identities are controversial to some degree and depending on the time period or location. So the category is essentially meaningless. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:24, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

This category should not exist. - Jmabel ! talk 00:52, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

One of the files in the category is directly related to zoophilia. Considering this is a subcategory of both Gender identity, Sexual orientation and LGBT i'm not really a fan of what this is implying.--Trade (talk) 01:39, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I started a CfD--Trade (talk) 01:39, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Pinging @Dronebogus, who created the category.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 01:42, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Help with cropping borders from images

Hi. I was wondering if people could help me crop the borders from images in Category:Images from the German Federal Archive with borders. It currently contains 23,469 images that need cropping which isn't great, but every little bit helps. Thanks. --Adamant1 (talk) 05:22, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

23,317 images now 🙂 ReneeWrites (talk) 19:20, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Why, I dont see any images in urgent need of cropping, please give some examples Broichmore (talk) 19:52, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

@Broichmore: it looks like a lot of these have a watermark in a margin. - Jmabel ! talk 21:34, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

They have catalog numbers, which say something about the DDR. Their discreet enough, not to worry about. Broichmore (talk) 10:50, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

For those who don’t know, Commons:CropTool is handy for this. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:41, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

When it works, which it mostly doesn't lately. - Jmabel ! talk 22:09, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

I just did several with no issues. I have rarely had problems with that tool. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:32, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Yesterday I overwrote an image, when I went to crop out details from the new image, croptool wanted to goto the original image to do the croppng. Had to resort to GIMP to do the job. It wasn't a cache problem. Broichmore (talk) 10:54, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

I started using CropTool yesterday to assist with this task, so far it's worked like a charm. ReneeWrites (talk) 16:44, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Good. Doing some back-of-the-envelope math, someone can plausibly do three of these a minute, so with 23,000 images, that means 128 person-hours of work, which is a lot for one person, but reasonable for a small group. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:54, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Just to say, the museum source has not cropped them, why would they not? There seems to be some kind of mania, here, in cropping out borders to satisfy OCD urges. Margins prove the extent of images, they confirm that images are indeed complete. Any source museum would consider this vanadalism. I have to say that certain museums employ prestigous decals on their images, claiming source, the Imperial War Museum, The British Library, the Bundesarchive in this case. Cropping out these details, deny them the opportunity of advertising, which is cheeky when you consider they curate these images for us for free. These Bundesarchiv decals that are being cropped out deny 'end users' easy attribution of where these images come from. Wikipedia in particular is bad for not only referencing the source museum, but also even the artist. Furthermore, in the new world of AI, these decals go some way to prove authenticity. At this point their discreet enough, not to worry about. This is not a good use of our resources, and is wrong. Broichmore (talk) 08:24, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

@Broichmore: I don't necessarily disagree. If I had my way I'd probably just remove the crop requests, but I didn't add them to begin with and I try to respect what other users want. It would at least be less work to just not crop the images to begin with though. --Adamant1 (talk) 09:35, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, the thing is that every so often editors discover the crop tool and see it as an easy pastime. When in fact it's a tool that should be rarely used, and with great caution. The average original uploader is more than capable of cropping their images prior to uploading, their wishes should be respected.

Even in these images, the Bundesarchiv logo, tell us so much. Date, German origin, the importance put on collecting the image by the German government, and that they consider it being worthy of preservation, & etc. Broichmore (talk) 09:53, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

This misunderstands how Wikipedia/Commons attributes images. The sources and authors are listed on the image's descriptions pages, not in the text on Wikipedia itself (this also to discourage using Wikipedia as a tool for self-promotion). With regards to this collection specifically, the information listed in the image is also listed on the page (the bild ID (and a link to the ID on the archive), the year it was taken, the name of the photographer, if one is known, the archive itself). This is where that information is supposed to be; there is no need to have it be visible on the image too. This kind of visible watermarking is discouraged. Invisible watermarking on the other hand is encouraged because it doesn't interfere with the contents of the images themselves. Every single one of the images in this collection has invisible watermarking too (the EXIF data if you scroll to the bottom), which contains the same information that's visible in the margins, and is wholly unaffected by the crop tool. ReneeWrites (talk) 13:31, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

@ReneeWrites: I don't misunderstand anything. While attribution is optional on Wikipedia; not every source is notable. However, many, and most are!

Discerning casual readers (who are, who Wikipedia aims itself) want to know the source of artwork or notable photographs.

I am yet to see an encyclopaedia, or source book which does not attribute at the front end. Children's books don’t attribute. Hiding attribution as you describe, is a successful way of withholding information from Wikipedia’s readership. The majority of which, are in computing terms illiterate.

As an incentive, the secret to successful Wikipedia writing is creating ''links'' to other articles on the project. There is an ongoing opportunity to link, to articles, about ''said'' notable artists and photographers. Those players, in turn, are often part of the stories themselves.

You couldn’t be more wrong, attribution and referencing is the very woof and warp of an encyclopaedia. Broichmore (talk) 19:19, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

If you want the image info to be visible directly in Wikipedia articles, then try to create a policy on Wikipedia recommending attribution in the caption. The info in the image border isn't visible in the thumbnails actually shown. You need to click at the image anyway to be able to read that information, and it is much more prominent in the actual file description than in the tiny text on the border. Now, clicking may get you to the image viewer instead of the image description page, but even then, clicking "more info" (and searching for that link) isn't unreasonable if you want to get to that info. (Many books attribute images in a separate list instead of "at the front line"; if you want the info, you have to look for it.) –LPfi (talk) 06:58, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

List of living people & privacy

Hi,
I was wondering if there were any privacy issues with a list of people's names, like this one?
Thanks. --Kontributor 2K (talk) 10:27, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Similar images available at Category:Name lists and Category:Lists of people (side note: should these be merged?) Dogfennydd (talk) 12:18, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

I mean that this a list of living people (1977), where you can see their religion and early school's name, hence my question

--Kontributor 2K (talk) 12:44, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

• Every school yearbook in the United States is online, either here, or Classmates or Ancestry. --RAN (talk) 18:25, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

This would be unbelievable to have in Germany :D --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 18:32, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately Ancestry would guillotine the books to ease scanning then discard the originals. I used to buy them at book sales and see if it was on their list of needed copies, but stopped when I learned their policy. Having them online is absolutely awesome. --RAN (talk) 21:48, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

in germany you can find a list of full names and a group photo of students doing abitur in a certain year on the newspaper and its website. XD

that's unbelievable in many other countries. RZuo (talk) 05:41, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

• In France, it's illegal too to distribute private data without the prior consent of the concerned people. --Kontributor 2K (talk) 07:30, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
  • This is probably just my lack of understanding of French law but, @Kontributor 2K: given that this appears to have been a published document, how is this "private data"? - Jmabel ! talk 17:46, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
    • I don't think it's been published (like a book); it's just been printed.
      In general, this type of document is given to families at the end of the school year, or after the ceremony.
      It's not a public document. --Kontributor 2K (talk) 17:58, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
• Under international copyright law that does constitute being "made public", also lists of names are not copyrightable. To be eligible for a copyright a work must have unique creative elements. If you asked a dozen people to compile the list of names, each person would create an identical list. If you asked a dozen people to compile a list of the best music of all time, each list would be different and copyrightable, that is why the Time 100 list each year is copyrighted, or the Fortune 500 list. --RAN (talk) 21:44, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

  You mean the Berne convention? Anyway, is privacy law coordinated with copyright terminology? In Finland, we have a lot of material that is public (you will get it if you ask), but still publishing it in a newspaper or similar is illegal unless there is sufficient public interest or other specific reasons to. This includes tax records and court cases. –LPfi (talk) 07:16, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Any procedures for seeking and archiving explicit consent when subject is identifiable?

Michael Winter in skeleton suit lying outside the German chancellor's residence to protest the lack of action on climate policy

Climate activist Tessel Hofstede from XR Netherlands speaks to Letzte Generation in Berlin in 2023

I took the photograph shown and have had a clear and unequivocal discussion with Michael Winter, the subject, that I can upload that and similar images to Wikimedia under CC‑BY‑4.0. Michael also provided me with his email address on my request and I was intending to follow up with a proper "release form".

That event occurred in Berlin, Germany of course and German and European privacy law would prevail.

I have had a reasonable look around this site and could not find mention of any formalized processes like this. The notion of "asserted consent" is traversed. So I take it that Wikimedia does not wish to provide support for written agreements of this nature? I guess that position is understandable? Particularly given the large number of legal jurisdictions involved and also changing statutes and evolving case law.

So I suppose the best thing to do in this particular case is to undertake some email traffic with Michael and leave that exchange on my hard‑drive as a kind of insurance policy? Any assistance welcome. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 17:54, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, the process is described at COM:VRT. GPSLeo (talk) 17:59, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

COM:VRT talks mainly about licensing by copyright-holders, but the same process could presumably be used to ticket for issues related to other rights. You might want to ask a question at Commons:Volunteer Response Team/Noticeboard to find out how they'd prefer to to handle this particular case. - Jmabel ! talk 18:05, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks GPSLeo and Jmabel. I did once use that process for another image in relation to consent. In that case, my associated email traffic was somehow stored out of public view and linked backed to the particular image. I also presume that my earlier assumption that the concept of release forms is not supported by Wikimedia due to the legal complexities present. Thanks both for your quick responses. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 19:17, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

According to Commons:Photographs of identifiable people you could add {{Personality rights}} and {{Consent}} if you haven’t already. Bidgee (talk) 19:39, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Maybe we could add a param to consent, so that people can reference a document id, link or VRT/OTRS id. That might be worthwhile! —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 19:51, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

For what it is worth, the accompanying image of the woman in yellow uses the following field "permission={{VRT info|1=2024050810008791}}" as part of the 'Information' template. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 21:21, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Only the VRT agents can see what info that ticket includes, so whether it is relevant to this discussion is unclear. But yes, that's the way to link to such correspondence. You could reference it in the permission field if you want reusers to know something about what privacy issues are covered. –LPfi (talk) 08:35, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Placement of recurring terms in sets of subcategories

Are pre- or postmodifiers preferable in cases like those that are being discussed in Commons:Categories for discussion/2023/12/Category:Old women sitting? I.e. when the option is semantically appropriate and linguistically feasible, do we want e.g. sitting-related subcategories to be called "Sitting x, Sitting y, Sitting z" or "x sitting, y sitting, z sitting"? As per my post in the category discussion, I think the latter makes the most sense, but perhaps there is more information and/or user consensus to be found somewhere. Sinigh (talk) 14:07, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Makes sense but "Old women" is also a recurring term so the optimal solution both this and items where the former term is a nonrecurring one would be to have redirects so that e.g. Old women sitting redirects to Sitting old women or the other way around. Would be good if there was a bot/script that did so / created redirect proposals one could quickly confirm or add to a list of likely inappropriate proposed redirects. (The same could maybe also be done for category names in languages other than English but that's another topic.) Prototyperspective (talk) 15:35, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

EK 318 flight Dubai Tokyo 11 may 2024

I was seated close to a window and have taken some pictures: The camera time is the time in Amsterdam, not the local time. The route is trough Pakistan and China. There where no delays.

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

Identifying the location would be usefull. Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:25, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

I've done this sort of thing a lot. I strongly recommend plunging into Google Maps looking for similar landforms. (BTW, for the future: much easier if you take a lot of pictures, even if you don't plan to use them all.) - Jmabel ! talk 14:59, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Also useful is if you are listening in-flight to the pilots talk to Air Traffic Controllers, making a note of which Air Traffic Controllers' areas the pilots are told to switch to (the next area on the flight plan); for flights arriving here, that is typically "New York Approach". The frequencies are not necessary for this purpose. It will help if you can listen in English, as that appears to be the standard language of air traffic control worldwide.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 15:09, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

De official times are Dubai departure 02:40 am local time and arrival at Tokyo 17:35 pm local Japanese times. Camera time Amsterdam GMT + 1 (+ 1 summertime); Dubai GMT + 4; Japan GMT + 9. 7 hour difference between Japan and Amsterdam. China is GMT + 8). From what I remenber the plane avoided India went trough Pakistan and then took a more or less straight line trough China and South Korea passing trough large Chinese dessert areas. So the Himalayas would be at de western end by the Pakistan / Chinese border, but could also be inside China.Smiley.toerist (talk) 16:52, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

@Smiley.toerist: At least the city on last three images should be relatively easy to identify e.g. with Google Maps satellite mode; provided you know at least approximately what area and/or what country had been overflown at that timepoint, as otherwise this would be a search for the "needle in a haystack".

In general, it's quite tricky and common landforms are difficult to identify afterwards, likewise in flight because from my experience, GPS on your phone seldom works well in flight. --A.Savin 16:27, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

The solution to have and keep a GPS connection in fast moving vehicles with a smartphone is to activate a constant tracking before you start moving. For these photos case it might be the best solution to look at the Flightradar24 data for the flight and then matching the capture time. But that requires a paid account there. GPSLeo (talk) 16:43, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

The last picture must be in Japan, about 15 minutes before landing. With the long shadow of a western sun, this must be an east coast. Smiley.toerist (talk) 17:02, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Bingo! The Kaimon Bridge by Kaimoncho.Smiley.toerist (talk) 17:11, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

(EK 318 flight Dubai Tokyo 11 may 2024 4) is close to JR station Izumi and (EK 318 flight Dubai Tokyo 11 may 2024 5) is close to Otsu port (found on GE). I have problems finding the correct location categories. Narita airport was approached from the north along the coast.Smiley.toerist (talk) 17:56, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

I have worked the 3 Japanese pictures. For one File:EK 318 flight Dubai Tokyo 11 may 2024 4.jpg, I set the location coordinates of the estmated viewpoint up in the air, but it maybe better to have the coordinates of the center of the image. In this case the river entry point in the ocean.Smiley.toerist (talk) 09:20, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Use ADSB data...

1. Go to https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE318
2. Select flight from past flights (right now only goes back to 21 May, but free basic member can go back 3 months)
3. click track log to show time → latitude longitude

Glrx (talk) 17:37, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

I managed to find the location of the desert village in Xinjiang

Camera location	38° 39′ 53.74″ N, 87° 21′ 19.6″ E	View all coordinates using: OpenStreetMap

, by doing some time and distance calculations and finding out that the village must be about 3.258 km from Dubai. The scharp dark green fields contrast with the more dessert like image from Google Earth. The most dificult to lokalise images must be the two mountain images where I wil probably be using ADSB data.Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:21, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Calculating that the mountain views 71 minutes before the dessert village, places the mountains within Pakistan. (13,03 km by minute)Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:36, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

The ADSB data of past fligths indicate that the plane usualy crosses Chinese border halfway between the Afganistan border and the Indian border (line of control). Close to the line, a bit to the East is the K2 mountain. However it is complicated to find the rigth mountain.Smiley.toerist (talk) 19:59, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

ADSB for flight that took off Sunday 02:45:00 AM UTC+04

• https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE318/history/20240511/2250Z/OMDB/RJAA/tracklog

I have to use camera time as UTC+2. Otherwise, the last picture is taken after the plane lands.

Pictures

ADSB Location

Picture	EXIF Time 11 May 2024 UTC+2	UTC 11 May 2024	EDT UTC-4	Location	Heading
1	03:39	0139Z	21:39	36° 06′ 41.4″ N, 75° 16′ 14.16″ E  View all coordinates using: OpenStreetMap FlightAware estimated (10 mins since last fix)	→ 70°
2	03:40	0140Z	21:40	36° 06′ 41.4″ N, 75° 16′ 14.16″ E  View all coordinates using: OpenStreetMap FlightAware estimated (10 mins since last fix)	→ 70°
3	04:51	0251Z	22:51	38° 45′ 34.92″ N, 86° 14′ 08.52″ E  View all coordinates using: OpenStreetMap FlightAware estimated (80 mins since last fix)	→ 76°
			22:58:36 +7.5 min	38° 57′ 39.24″ N, 87° 20′ 20.4″ E  View all coordinates using: OpenStreetMap FlightAware estimated (90 mins since last fix)	→ 77°
4	10:12	0812Z	04:12	36° 14′ 53.88″ N, 140° 38′ 03.84″ E  View all coordinates using: OpenStreetMap	↘ 133°
5	10:12	0812Z	04:12	36° 14′ 53.88″ N, 140° 38′ 03.84″ E  View all coordinates using: OpenStreetMap	↘ 133°
6	10:17	0817Z	04:17	35° 56′ 35.88″ N, 140° 45′ 37.8″ E  View all coordinates using: OpenStreetMap	← 289°

Glrx (talk) 23:11, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you all!   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 23:58, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. The positions are estimations and imprecise. I was on a seat on the left side. By the landing (4, 5, 6) the plane was clearly flying over land and not over the sea. The details of picture 3 match with the GE satelite picture. As the plane was flying around 10 km heigth and the village has a low altitude of 1017 meter above sealevel the plane must have been someway south of that position.Smiley.toerist (talk) 09:36, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

For pictures 1 and 2 the sun was a morning sun from the east. Pic 2 is the same mountain taken a minute later.Smiley.toerist (talk) 09:45, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

First, a jetliner cruises at about 1000 kmph or 16 km per minute. An error of 5 minutes is 80 km.

I did not interpolate the position from the ADSB data; instead I just chose a close time. Interpolation would be better if we know the times are accurate.

The error for the village is large. To match the longitude, I had to advance the time by 7.5 minutes, but the ADSB plane position was still well north of where it should be. The issue is partly resolved by the position being estimated because there is no actual ADSB data during that part of the flight.

The ADSB data that is not estimated should be accurate. The numbers I used do put the plane over water when it should be over land. However, you can look at track as it approaches the airport and see that portions of that track do align with the pictures.

That error may just be a time offset. You might see how accurate your camera clock is right now. Alternatively, you could try to figure it out from a reasonable track position for a particular image. That's what I was trying to do with the 7.5-minute village offset until I realized the track didn't fit and noticed the ADSB data for that time was only an estimate.

The EXIF data also has a quantization error of 1 minute.

I expect the ADSB times to be derived from the GPS satellites.

Glrx (talk) 21:02, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

I have added coordinates to the landing images 5 and 6, on the visual estimation with identified landmarks 'Cape Otsu' (File:Cape Otsu Lighthouse (Kitaibaraki City).jpg) and 'Kaimon Bridge'.Smiley.toerist (talk) 08:19, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Flickr & file credit

Is it actually useful for structured data to mark my own file that I copied from my own Flickr account as authored by Flickr user Joe Mabel, as against Commons user Jmabel (both me)? - Jmabel ! talk 15:04, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

I would say so. Most Commons users upload their files here directly, not via Flickr. And most of the time when people upload files from Flickr with the Flickr2Commons plugin they are not the original author of those images, so it makes sense (and is imo useful) if that credit line is automatically attributed to the Flickr profile the images are from. For your own images you could always edit the credit line to your Commons profile if you prefer to be credited that way. ReneeWrites (talk) 20:27, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

@ReneeWrites: I did rewrite the credit in the wikitext. And then the bot goes through and writes the SDC as if I had not done so. - Jmabel ! talk 05:18, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Disregard my previous comment, I misunderstood the problem. ReneeWrites (talk) 11:21, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Here is a much more egregious example: File:Ford Model "T" car no. 2, winner of the 1909 trans-continental race from New York to Seattle.jpg. At all times, the Wikitext has accurately indicated that this is a photo by Frank H. Nowell, official photographer of the Alaska-Yukon-Pacific Exposition. Originally that was in the description rather than the author field, but I fixed that in 2010 and added a {{Creator}} template in 2016. FlickypediaBackfillrBot marked it today in SDC as being created by University of Washington Libraries Digital Collections because that is the immediate source. That strikes me as absolutely wrong.

@Alexwlchan: do you consider this correct behavior by your bot, and if so why? Otherwise, is there some hope of addressing this? - Jmabel ! talk 17:44, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree that the SDC should point to the named photographer if known, and not the Flickr user.

I think the bot’s behaviour is fine.

• It didn't delete or replace the information in the Wikitext. It only added a creator (P170) SDC statement because there wasn’t one on this file before.
• If there's already a creator (P170) statement, the bot leaves it as-is. I could point you to literally thousands of examples where the bot has looked at a file, seen a P170 with more specific information, and left it as-is.
• If the file is edited to add a more specific statement, the bot will leave it as-is. I’ve done a manual edit to replace the Flickr user statement with one that points to Frank H. Nowell (Q26202833), and if/when the bot processes that file again, it won’t make any changes to P170.

Is this a widespread problem with the bot, or is this an unusual example? Alexwlchan (talk) 08:28, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

• • I'd say it's widespread. It is going to happen literally any time a user first uploads their own content to Flickr and than imports it to Commons, and literally any time a third party posts historical content to Flickr and someone imports that. - Jmabel ! talk 17:50, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Notification of DMCA takedown demand — Autobiography of Banbhatta

In compliance with the provisions of the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), and at the instruction of the Wikimedia Foundation's legal counsel, one or more files have been deleted from Commons. Please note that this is an official action of the Wikimedia Foundation office which should not be undone. If you have valid grounds for a counter-claim under the DMCA, please contact me.

The takedown can be read here.

Affected file(s):

• File:बाणभट्ट की आत्मकथा.pdf (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

To discuss this DMCA takedown, please go to COM:DMCA#Autobiography of Banbhatta. Thank you! Joe Sutherland (WMF) (talk) 23:03, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Announcing the first Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to your language

Hello,

The scrutineers have finished reviewing the vote results. We are following up with the results of the first Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) election.

We are pleased to announce the following individuals as regional members of the U4C, who will fulfill a two-year term:

• North America (USA and Canada)
  • –
• Northern and Western Europe
  • Ghilt
• Latin America and Caribbean
  • –
• Central and East Europe (CEE)
  • —
• Sub-Saharan Africa
  • –
• Middle East and North Africa
  • Ibrahim.ID
• East, South East Asia and Pacific (ESEAP)
  • 0xDeadbeef
• South Asia
  • –

The following individuals are elected to be community-at-large members of the U4C, fulfilling a one-year term:

• Barkeep49
• Superpes15
• Civvì
• Luke081515
• –
• –
• –
• –

Thank you again to everyone who participated in this process and much appreciation to the candidates for your leadership and dedication to the Wikimedia movement and community.

Over the next few weeks, the U4C will begin meeting and planning the 2024-25 year in supporting the implementation and review of the UCoC and Enforcement Guidelines. Follow their work on Meta-wiki.

On behalf of the UCoC project team,

RamzyM (WMF) 08:14, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

• I'm probably lacking some context here, but why the many (majority, actually) that are simply "–"? - Jmabel ! talk 14:56, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

  @Jmabel The m:U4C Charter requires that candidates get at least 60% support to be elected. Only 7 candidates were elected, so the U4C does not have a quorum to operate. AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 01:29, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

  • @AntiCompositeNumber: thank you. Very odd that the announcement above makes no mention of that. - Jmabel ! talk 01:55, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
    • @Jmabel and AntiCompositeNumber: Good points. @RamzyM (WMF): It does seem rather misleading to talk about U4C starting its work without mentioning that the U4C is sub-quorum and is limited to only carrying out actions that do not require votes. Boud (talk) 20:15, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Can I use this picture

I have found this on flickr[6]. It is a photo of an original picture held in the Royal Library, Copenhagen. It is described, in:
Niklas Eriksson & Johan Rönnby (2017) Mars (1564): the initial archaeological investigations of a great 16th‐century Swedish warship, International Journal of Nautical Archaeology, 46:1, 92-107, DOI: 10.1111/1095-9270.12210 [7]
as "Illustration from a Danish manuscript, signed Rudolf van Deventer 1585".

The flickr version claims copyright – but presumably that is only copyright of the photograph. The illustration itself is clearly over 400 years old.

Is there any route through the various copyright laws that would allow a version of this picture to be uploaded to commons? Obviously, as well as the flickr version, there is the one in the paper listed above. There is also a cropped version in
Niklas Eriksson (2019) How Large Was Mars? An investigation of the dimensions of a legendary Swedish warship, 1563–1564, The Mariner's Mirror, 105:3, 260-274, DOI: 10.1080/00253359.2019.1615775 (Open access[8])
Other pictures of the wreck of this vessel look to be heavily protected in copyright law, so this old picture would be of real value. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 19:28, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

You can upload it and tag with a {{Pd-art}} template. Ruslik (talk) 20:02, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

More precisely, {{PD-Art|PD-old-100-expired}}. - Jmabel ! talk 03:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Renaming the Community Wishlist Survey: Vote for your preferred name

Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback on renaming the Community Wishlist Survey. We now have 3 names for you to choose from:

1. Community Ideas Exchange

2. Community Feature Requests

3. Community Suggestions Portal

You are invited to vote for one that works for you. –– STei (WMF) (talk) 15:07, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

What's the cost of this rename to WMF? Do we really need to spend resources on this rather than actually doing some development? Enhancing999 (talk) 19:01, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Naming of concert photography categories

Do we have any guidelines on how to name categories on Commons for specific concerts? I feel like there is a lot of freedom. Maybe it would be worth developing a scheme such as: Artist name - Place - Date or different in a specific format? Example of diversity in naming: c:Category:2013 concerts in the United States Gower (talk) 05:47, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

I believe we do not have such a standard, and doubt we need one. - Jmabel ! talk 12:41, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

It probably depends on the artist and concert but I don't think the place or date needs to be in the name of the category in a good perecentage of cases. That's what parent categories are for. --Adamant1 (talk) 13:07, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

a lot of times categories for events are just titled according to their official names. sometimes when that name is not special enough a year, a date or a location is appended in parentheses, e.g. (2024) or (London).

it certainly helps if you choose to name your categories in a very detailed format. imo, a format of "concert name (yyyy-mm-dd)" is good enough, because quite rarely there would be two concerts of the same name on the same date? if the concert has no name, then "artistname's concert (yyyy-mm-dd)". if there are multiple artists involved then "Concert at venuename, city (yyyy-mm-dd)". RZuo (talk) 07:20, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Mechanism to request an image/map made

Hi, I was wondering if there could be a mechanism for requesting a map be made? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexanderkowal (talk • contribs) 20:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

@Alexanderkowal: Commons:Graphic Lab/Map workshop - Jmabel ! talk 22:37, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Alexanderkowal (talk) 12:22, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Cat for all foreign leaders visiting a specific country？

e.g. cat that includes both president of france visiting london and king of norway visiting london?

existing cat structure for a specific person visiting other countries is Category:Politicians in foreign countries. RZuo (talk) 09:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

See for example Category:Visits of foreign politicians to Germany. However from what I can see only few countries have such a category so far and there is no common parental "visits .. by country" category. --A.Savin 12:22, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Strangely the hierarchy brings President Biden visiting Russia. Enhancing999 (talk) 19:14, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

underscores in file names

When I name a file on my Windows PC in a folder, and then upload using the wizard, underscores and or dashes appear in the file name. How to stop it from doing that? -Broichmore (talk) 14:45, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

@Broichmore: Spaces get converted to underscores (if necessary) for URL purposes, but both are stored as spaces and can be used either way (I find the underscores ugly, and so does AutoEd). What is getting converted to dashes for you?   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 16:09, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

MediaWiki will generally convert characters not allowed in filenames to dashes. Typically that means : / \ < > [ ] | # { } but can also include more obscure characters, such as control characters. Bawolff (talk) 19:12, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

• That is by design, it can be annoying when you want to download, and then reupload to another website and use the filename as a description of image. You then have to remove the underscores by hand. --RAN (talk) 19:03, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

سرآسونٱ

See Commons:Deletion requests/سرآسونٱ Jarekt (talk) 01:08, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

The final text of the Wikimedia Movement Charter is now on Meta

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to your language

Hi everyone,

The final text of the Wikimedia Movement Charter is now up on Meta in more than 20 languages for your reading.

What is the Wikimedia Movement Charter?

The Wikimedia Movement Charter is a proposed document to define roles and responsibilities for all the members and entities of the Wikimedia movement, including the creation of a new body – the Global Council – for movement governance.

Join the Wikimedia Movement Charter “Launch Party”

Join the “Launch Party” on June 20, 2024 at 14.00-15.00 UTC (your local time). During this call, we will celebrate the release of the final Charter and present the content of the Charter. Join and learn about the Charter before casting your vote.

Movement Charter ratification vote

Voting will commence on SecurePoll on June 25, 2024 at 00:01 UTC and will conclude on July 9, 2024 at 23:59 UTC. You can read more about the voting process, eligibility criteria, and other details on Meta.

If you have any questions, please leave a comment on the Meta talk page or email the MCDC at mcdc@wikimedia.org.

On behalf of the MCDC,

RamzyM (WMF) 08:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

After reading it, I noticed that:

• Charter refers some "community leadership" as teh accountable body for each Wikimedia project, without defining what it means (the whole community, some specific members?);
• Charter rules over all Wikimedia project policies, but not over those of the Wikimedia affiliates and the WMF;
• Charter leaves WMF out of the Global Council (community + affiliates), as an independent body at the same power level;
• While the whole community, including affiliate people, get to elect 12 seats out of 25 in the Global Council, affiliates themselves get an additional 8 seats for themselves, which I considere a severe and totally unjustified unbalance of power towards affiliates;

I don't think this is acceptable, and will certainly vote to block this charter. I advise you to read it carefully, and eventually block it as well, as I don't see how this could favor our community. Darwin ^Ahoy! 16:06, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

File:Dr. Yuval Karniel - Sammy Ofer School of Communications - Reichman University.jpg

Why was this picture deleted with speedy deletion criteria? There is an article in the Hebrew Wikipedia about Yuval Karniel. This is a very puzzling deletion. See Category:Yuval Karniel. I am a VRT volunteer, and the photographer User:Pinhas stern contacted VRT system and asked why it was deleted. Hanay (talk) 05:03, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

• @Hanay: The respective user may request an Commons:Undeletion requests if the deletion may be inappropiate --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 09:37, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

  @PantheraLeo1359531 He requested it through VRT, why is that not enough? I didn't get any satisfactory explanation why the picture was deleted. @Geagea Maybe you can explain it to me? Thanks Hanay (talk) 11:56, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

  Undeleted. Obvious mistake. -- Geagea (talk) 12:03, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you Hanay (talk) 12:16, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

  Pinging @Alachuckthebuck as tagger per COM:CSD#F10 and Kadı as deleting Admin; the uploader has over 8,000 constructive global contributions.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 12:15, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

  @Geagea, @Hanay, @Jeff G.: Thank you all for notifying me. Sorry for this. Best wishes. Kadı Message 14:24, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

It's concerning that this comes just days after I notified Alachuckthebuck about similar incorrect F10 tagging. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 19:45, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Low server performance?

Hi!

It feels like the servers' performance seems to be decreased compared to the last weeks. Database queries take a lot longer, file publishing sometimes has a huge delay, and also the amount of uploaded files and data has decreased considerably. Do you experience this, too and what could be the reasons? Greetings --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 08:49, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

@PantheraLeo1359531: This may have something to do with phab:T363622.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 12:11, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks :) --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 13:39, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

I was trying to edit my watchlist to reduce it .. but that times out too. Enhancing999 (talk) 13:16, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

@Enhancing999: I got the following when I tried:

MediaWiki internal error.

Original exception: [f497cc8d-d5a6-4ad1-95eb-db2be5de539e] 2024-06-13 13:19:30: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError"

Exception caught inside exception handler.

Set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; at the bottom of LocalSettings.php to show detailed debugging information.

  — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 13:22, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Special:EditWatchlist/raw works. Enhancing999 (talk) 13:30, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

@Enhancing999: Thanks, but "Not enough memory to open this page" is not exactly a ringing endorsement.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 03:19, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Have I got this right now

The file that I uploaded File:An illustration of a Swedish warship, probably Mars, under attack by a Danish ship.jpg has a warning of deletion as the copyright status is unclear. This is a reproduction of an illustration made in the year 1585. I have sourced it from its appearance in an academic paper, though it is also available on flickr (both sources given with the file). Have I met all the requirements or am I still missing something? Thanks, ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 20:36, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

@ThoughtIdRetired You uploaded the file without a license, so the bot came and tagged it. Next time this happens simply remove the deletion notice after fixing the license. Darwin ^Ahoy! 21:42, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, though I have to say that removing the deletion notice sounds a bit like marking your own homework. For some reason I have never felt totally comfortable with my level of understanding copyright law, which might explain that sentiment. And that bot must have worked pretty quickly on this occasion, because in the past I have often uploaded with the wrong or a missing licence then immediately edited with the correct licence from a file that I know to have an identical copyright situation. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 22:14, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

@ThoughtIdRetired: if you are less than fully confident, then rather than just remove the tag, start a DR, and in the DR, note what you did. - Jmabel ! talk 01:06, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Can you decode "DR" for me? Thanks. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 10:32, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

That would be a deletion request. --Robert Flogaus-Faust (talk) 13:30, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

& @ThoughtIdRetired: Good stuff! Any idea why the cannonballs have flames from both sides, were they incendiary cannonballs? Was it a special weapon, or just an artist never drawing a cannonball before. --RAN (talk) 14:55, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Our original upload in 2014 describes this picture as The battle between the Danish and Swedish admiral ships Jägmästaren and Sankt Erik. The image was used en:Action of 7 July 1565. Broichmore (talk) 15:54, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Looking at a larger image, they seem to be incendiary cannonballs. -- Asclepias (talk) 16:39, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

The paper cited as the source argues that the ship is "probably" Mars. The arguments seem reasonable as this is a two decked ship (rare at the time, certainly in the Baltic) which caught fire in battle and ultimately exploded. I would suggest taking a look at the two archaeological papers cited in the article on Mars. Frustratingly, there are different historical accounts of the action – it probably doesn't help that the Swedish admiral involved was a bit of a celebrity. I take it that the cannon balls are incendiary ammunition – the original source of the illustration was a treatise on naval gunnery, so it seems. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 20:39, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks. I'll leave it to you to cross refer notes on the two images. Also, same for whether or not Deventer is a von or a van? Once you decide, I'll enter him into Wikidata. Last, the cannballs, this is actually en:Chain shot of a kind? Broichmore (talk) 22:18, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

File:לירן כוג'הינוף - עותק.jpg

Please undelete File:לירן כוג'הינוף - עותק.jpg. There is VRT permission for this file. Thanks Hanay (talk) 00:29, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

• {@Hanay: then take that up on Commons:Volunteer Response Team/Noticeboard or start an undeletion request rather than discuss here on the Village pump. - Jmabel ! talk 01:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you Hanay (talk) 04:57, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

  • I think @Hanay had already been asked to do that above. Is there a reason you are posting this here instead? Enhancing999 (talk) 08:44, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

    I did not. This is another picture. Hanay (talk) 14:02, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

    • But the same situation, and the same advice applies. - Jmabel ! talk 17:12, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

COM:Exif

I recently noticed that COM:Exif is linked from Special:UploadWizard's warning that files may contain metadata. I migrated the translation to the Translate extension, and while doing so I noticed that a lot of the page is either out of date (there's advice for Windows XP) or not particularly useful to a non-technical user. I'm not in a position to rewrite it, as I only use exiftool on Linux to mess with metadata. AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 18:59, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

The Windows XP's part should probably be removed. Ruslik (talk) 20:05, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Ideas or help related to the use of GFDL wiki-wide

{{GFDL}}-only is no longer accepted for new uploads on Commons (since 2018), English Wikipedia (since 2021) and some other wikis because GFDL is not a good license for media files. {{GFDL-with-disclaimers}} are even worse so a lot have been done for many years to get rid of them per en:Wikipedia:GFDL standardization (since 2007).

I noticed that some wikis still upload files licensed GFDL and some even with disclaimers (and more still host such files).

So if there are anyone out there that have any good ideas on how to get all wikis to stop using disclaimers and if possible also the use of GFDL-only or would like to help make that happen it would be great.

I have made a list of wikis and files uploaded with GFDL (table below only have a few of the wikis and it is just to illustrate):

Language/category	Number of files	Remarks
w:af:Kategorie:GFDL-beelde	182
w:als:Kategorie:GFDL-Bild	24
w:an:Categoría:Imáchens GFDL	13
w:ar:تصنيف:صور رخصة جنو	552
w:en:Category:GFDL files with disclaimers	10,914
v:it:Categoria:Immagini GFDL	34
v:ru:Категория:Файлы:GFDL	7
voy:en:Category:GFDL files	13
m:Category:Presumed GFDL images	459

The full list is located at m:User:MGA73/GFDL files.

I noted some idea at m:User:MGA73/Status#How_to_help_cleaning_up_GFDL and basicly it is stop upload of new files, clean up existing files, move the good files to Commons (if possible) and delete the bad files. (If possible also fix m:File metadata cleanup drive.)

But that will only work if someone does something and it goes a lot faster if many help :-) --MGA73 (talk) 07:26, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Nice, thanks for making the list! —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 08:18, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Mirrored image

File:Drake Milligan at The Brick Bar Oxford Ohio.jpg is clearly mirrored, as all other images of Drake Milligan show him playing right-handed. (The bass in the background is mirrored too.) Can someone please un-mirror this image? TenPoundHammer (talk) 10:37, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@TenPoundHammer: I added it to Category:Images to be flopped back for you.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 14:26, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Is the June 2024 Ukraine peace summit logo copyright-free?

Does the 15-16 June 2024 Ukraine peace summit logo consist "entirely of a simple geometric combination of shapes and text"? The official alt text describes the ring pattern as "overlapping blue and yellow circles". I see them rather as 10 greyish concentric annuli and 10 yellowish concentric annuli with a partial transparency rule used to show the intersecting parts. So rather simple, but not completely trivial. The Swiss flag is on there too, and that is geometrically very simple and has at least one PD version on Commons.

So does this logo count as a free logo under the simple geometric combination argument, as described at w:Wikipedia:Logos#Copyright-free logos? Is it uploadable to Commons? Boud (talk) 20:00, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

@Boud: Looks OK. In the future, when providing links, it is much preferred not to use URLs that result in downloads to the file system of the computer that is accessing. - Jmabel ! talk 22:35, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

OK, cool - thanks! Regarding the URL, I don't see how it's possible to provide a URL to a file that does not result in downloading the file. Without downloading the file, the file cannot be viewed.

But you also refer to storage in a file system. My guess is what you mean is that it's better to provide a URL that can be used to view an image in a browser tab - in which case the file is downloaded and stored in RAM and very likely also in a cache on a file system, which the user will generally not notice. I did notice that that my browser refuses to display that file in a tab using that URL. Just now I found that removing /jcr:content/renditions/original is sufficient for browser display of the file, in which the file is only stored in RAM and in a cache area of the file system - so thanks for the tip :). I guess jcr:content/... redirects to a script which insists on downloading and storage in a file system and refuses to allow downloading and displaying in a browser tab. Boud (talk) 23:01, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, everything is likely cached, but normally when you browse to a page you don't need to explicitly delete it to free the disk space back up. - Jmabel ! talk 23:18, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

By the way, for copyright expertise, Village pump/Copyright is generally a better place to ask. - Jmabel ! talk 22:36, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

OK, thanks, noted. Boud (talk) 23:01, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

it's may be COM:TOO Switzerland--『Shiro Neko』^Обг. 15:37, 16 June 2024 (UTC)